The Independent Uganda: You get the Truth we Pay the Price
William Carlos is Ireland’s new Ambassador to Uganda. He talked to The Independent’s RONALD MUSOKE.
What have been some of your impressions of Uganda since you arrived in September last year?
Officially, it is my first time in Uganda although I made a private visit in March last year. I came from Mozambique where I had worked for four years as ambassador. My daughter works here and, since I was coming to the end of my tour of duty, my wife thought we should come over to Uganda and visit our daughter. So we visited and saw the beauty of Uganda. Uganda had over the years been on my mind and with the blessings of God; I got offered the opportunity to come to Uganda and serve as ambassador. Although Uganda is a bit like Mozambique, the multicultural aspect for me is great here. There is an energy here that I don’t see in many parts of Africa. There is also a drive, an ambition and a desire to achieve in this country. The other element that has impressed me is the calibre of Ugandan people that I meet; whether I am in a taxi or on the street, the depth of knowledge that people have of what goes on down here is great.
Uganda and Ireland are celebrating 25 years of bilateral cooperation this year. How would you describe the current relations?
Right now, I would say the relations are very good, as they have been over the years. We might be talking about the official engagement but I like to think of our missionaries as our very first engagement with Uganda. I talk to people all over the country and there is this connection with our missionaries. The missionaries brought with them the Irish values of connecting with people. Ireland’s mission has always been about helping and connecting with people. Many Ugandans have been educated with Irish help and a lot of Ugandans have been delivered by Irish machinery as well and so that explains our history with Uganda. But also, our NGO tradition has been important in Uganda over the last 30-40 years.
What has been the focus of the Uganda-Ireland relations?
The focus initially was in health and education. But we also focused on conflict. When we decided to open embassies in Africa, we did so around the same time and we chose Uganda, Ethiopia and Mozambique. Although Uganda was much further ahead of Mozambique, all these countries were emerging from conflict. Learning from our own history, we felt that the difficulties and challenges of coming out of conflict are quite broad.
Tell us about the trade relations between the two countries.
There is a growing awareness in Ireland about trade with Africa and certainly a growing awareness and interest in trade with Uganda. The situation is that it works both sides. The Irish embassy here is about promoting Ireland and Irish business and the Ugandan High Commission in London which is accredited to Ireland is about promoting Ugandan business in Ireland and the UK. You have a very active High Commissioner in London who wants to engage more and you also have a very active Honorary Consul in Dublin (Mrs. Sylvia Gavigan). I met her recently when I was in Ireland and she talked about lots of opportunities that are available to enhance trade between the two countries. There are certain businesses that are already here and we hope to see more develop over the next few years. The potential around building links around tourism, for instance, is huge.
Ireland and Uganda seem to have emerged out of turbulent histories but what exactly can Uganda learn from Ireland when it comes to dealing with a tumultuous past to one’s advantage?
We come from a country that was devastated by a famine, the war of independence, and a crisis that saw close to 100,000 people emigrate out of Ireland every year. It seemed like we had challenges all the time until we got to a situation where we recognised through our education strategy that we could attract foreign direct investment. The key thing is that we had to look outwards because as a small country, you have to attract foreign investment. We are now in a situation where Ireland today has positioned itself as a welcome place for talent from abroad in a wide range of highly sought technological disciplines. Ireland’s talent and education offering is now recognized globally. The Institute for Management Development ranks Ireland first in the world for flexibility and adaptability of workforce; third in the world for a national culture that is open to foreign ideas, third when it comes to worker motivation, fifth in the world for attitudes toward globalization, fifth for attracting and retaining talent, fifth in the world for labour productivity and seventh in the world for availability of finance skills. What that says is that we are able to adapt and respond to the world market by attracting people and it does not matter how big or small you are; our focus is the business and trade that you bring into the country. We want to attract foreign-owned businesses and at the moment, there are over 1400 distributed all around the country. They are there for a variety of reasons but they say Ireland is one of the best places to do business. So for us, improving the business environment is something that we can talk about with Uganda.
What particular challenges do Irish investors face while doing business in Uganda?
Uganda is making strides in improving the business environment but I think there are still issues around clarity on corporate taxation policies. The issue of the regulatory environment where sometimes, it is like the government agencies are not talking to each other very well needs to be addressed. We have had issues with Irish businesses where the law is saying one thing but the minister is saying one other thing and the local government official is also saying something else. The other issue concerns ‘after-care’—that the companies might be getting the help in setting up but after they have set up, getting support is a challenge. This is something we are working with the Uganda Investment Authority to improve.
Ireland has over the last eight years supported Uganda build its social protection system by funding the social assistance grant for empowerment (SAGE) scheme, specifically targeting the country’s senior citizens. Why has Ireland been keen on this programme?
It primarily goes back to our Irish values. The Irish people expect to see that the most vulnerable people; especially the young and the elderly do not get left behind. As I mentioned recently, this is quite a unique programme in the way it is developing and it is actually one of the better models compared to those that I have seen in Ethiopia, Mozambique or Zambia. We have to build something incrementally over time and to ensure that those who get access to it continue doing so over time. We feel it is important because the elderly have an awful lot to contribute to the communities. They have been at the centre of holding families together.
There is currently a clamour for the scheme to be rolled out nationwide; a development that could see over 1.5 million Ugandans aged 65 and above enrolled. How feasible is this roll-out considering that partners like Ireland intend to end their support for the programme next year?
In 2020, we are looking at a new strategy but I do not see us discontinuing this programme in 2020. The journey has just begun and it takes time to establish. We are very positive of what the government has achieved and so we should continue beyond 2020.
You are also the Irish ambassador to Rwanda. What do you make of the on-and-off squabbles between the two neighbours?
First, I am waiting to present my credentials to President Paul Kagame but I know that Uganda and Rwanda have a great sense of history. You are brothers and sisters—it is the only way to describe it. When I talk to people here at the embassy; most of them say they have Rwandan relations and when you look at it in terms of the history of connection that is extremely important. I think sometimes there can be arguments between neighbours but they should get resolved. The key issue is sitting around the table to talk through these issues. One thing we discovered with our Irish history is that when you do have some discussions which may be difficult; you end up getting stronger at the end of it. For us our relationship with our neighbours is important and I am sure that is the same with Uganda and Rwanda.
Going forward, what areas of interest does Ireland intend to focus on over the next 25 years?
Certainly, there will always be an engagement in the health and education sectors but, we will want much stronger trade relations with Uganda. I think we want increased cooperation between both countries in terms of politics, trade and business. We share a lot of values and I would like to see Ireland and Uganda engage internationally together.
Your last word?
It is the start of my work in Uganda and I would like to reach out and get to know Uganda in a much deeper way. I would like to talk to academia, civil society, talk with communities and get to know what is important to Ugandans and how Ireland can continue to contribute in a relevant way.
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